This is one of my Pet Peeves about Tekumel. The various Tsolyani pronunciation guides that have been published over the years which though apparently intended for English readers, reference languages other than English when trying to explain how to say all those weird names.
The main one being the "ü", as in: N'lüss. We are told to pronounce this in two ways, depending upon which part of Tsolyanu we are from: "In western Tsolyanu , the "unlaut ü" of German; in the east it is a high, back, un-rounded vowel, like the "undotted i" of Turkish"!!!
Oh-Kayyeeee...and you think this is helpful - how? Did I mention that we're ENGLISH speakers!? That means: no German, no Turkish, and don't even ask me to figure out what a "high, back, un-rounded vowel" is.
Now I think the "ü" might be "Ooo" - at least the German bit, but I don't recall if I looked it up somewhere to figure that out. That means that "N'lüss" might be pronounced NUH-Loooss - or it might not...
Update: This according to Google...
Update 2: "I, ı [undotted i] 'uh' or the vowel sound in 'fuss' and 'plus'"
So we can pronounce "N'lüss" as NUH-loooss or NUH-lus, depending upon which part of Tsolyanu we hail from.
Update 3: my other example of this peeve is the "GH" - which is described as "a soft, frictive "g", the Arabic Ghayn; not in European languages."
I found some pronunciation help via Google again:
"I speak only a few words of Arabic but one self-instruction book I have says that this sound uses muscles that are not used by English speakers, except when they throw up."
Nuff Said!
The main one being the "ü", as in: N'lüss. We are told to pronounce this in two ways, depending upon which part of Tsolyanu we are from: "In western Tsolyanu , the "unlaut ü" of German; in the east it is a high, back, un-rounded vowel, like the "undotted i" of Turkish"!!!
Oh-Kayyeeee...and you think this is helpful - how? Did I mention that we're ENGLISH speakers!? That means: no German, no Turkish, and don't even ask me to figure out what a "high, back, un-rounded vowel" is.
Now I think the "ü" might be "Ooo" - at least the German bit, but I don't recall if I looked it up somewhere to figure that out. That means that "N'lüss" might be pronounced NUH-Loooss - or it might not...
Update: This according to Google...
Update 2: "I, ı [undotted i] 'uh' or the vowel sound in 'fuss' and 'plus'"
So we can pronounce "N'lüss" as NUH-loooss or NUH-lus, depending upon which part of Tsolyanu we hail from.
Update 3: my other example of this peeve is the "GH" - which is described as "a soft, frictive "g", the Arabic Ghayn; not in European languages."
I found some pronunciation help via Google again:
"I speak only a few words of Arabic but one self-instruction book I have says that this sound uses muscles that are not used by English speakers, except when they throw up."
Nuff Said!
By their nature, sounds which do not occur in English cannot be demonstrated with English examples.
ReplyDeleteFortunately Wikipedia has sample recordings of all of them.
ı (dotless i) [ɯ]
ü (u-umlaut) [y]
gh [ɣ]
(I'm not sure if direct links will work, so click through to get to the pages with the audio files.)
> The main one being the "ü", as in: N'lüss. We are told to pronounce this in two ways, depending upon which part of Tsolyanu we are from: "In western Tsolyanu , the "unlaut ü" of German
ReplyDeleteHeh.. that's the only option in the original text. Nice one, Phil, for adding that undotted-i to totally confuse the would-be linguist.
> The various Tsolyani pronunciation guides that have been published over the years which though apparently intended for English readers,
American English readers? Gotta remember some of us have to translate from US to UK pronunciations, too!
Oh, and Ts Solyàni, please. *jk*
(The Professor /is/ allowed to changed his mind, you see!)
> "I speak only a few words of Arabic but one self-instruction book I have says that this sound uses muscles that are not used by English speakers, except when they throw up."
*lol*
More usually late-night Turkish kebab shops when practicing those undotted-i's, I'd've thought?
verification: knesti (dotted)
In 'The Armies of Tékumel - Tsolyanu'
ReplyDeleteit's spelled N'lyss with a right handed accent over the y !
My Alt code list doesn't even allow for such an accent.
Is this a case of a later revision to the official spelling ??
Cliff
@Cliff: *nods* That one gave Phil typing issues way back, too, since it's both N'llyss (y overtyped on faint u; in error or otherwise) and N'lyss (first s overtyped on y) back in Bey Sy times.
ReplyDeleteRegional Dialects explain away any variances, yep ;)
ReplyDelete